Maps of Meaning #11

Tags: #<Tag:0x00007f2940ed9c00> #<Tag:0x00007f2940ed8b20> #<Tag:0x00007f2940ed80d0>
(Benjamin Lupton) #1

Discussion for 2017 Maps of Meaning - Lecture #11

study group discussions

Discussion as part of our Jordan B Peterson Study Group.

2017-05-06: Maps of Meaning #10, #11
2017-05-20: Maps of Meaning #11
Pull Request Merge Days
(Benjamin Lupton) #2

my notes

  • 1:30 - when you get where you are going, it is a validation of how you got there

  • 3:00 - you have evolved perceptions, that orient themselves around your objectives - via an interpretative framework, that has evolved over time - constraints; a game you want to play, a game you can play with other people, a game that when you play produces the desired results in the world - the interpretive framework sets out the description of the landscape where the game is played, and the rules of the game

  • 7:00 - chaos is what causes your deterioration and death - so you build an enclosure to protect you - but all enclosures can be invaded from the outside and from within - our nature is to understand the nature of the threat of chaos - the threats are external, social, and from each individual from our intrinsic malevolence

  • 9:00 - what is the worst possible snake? what do you do against the worst possible snake? some possible answers; you confront it, you sacrifice to it

  • 9:30 - god, the spirit of the great father, is the conceptualisation of what bargains with for rewards in their game

  • 13:00 - when we focus on something, it is because we haven’t mapped it properly - we don’t need to focus on things we’ve mapped - until an object (a thing which we object) get in the way of our map, then which we focus on it

  • 14:00 - apocalyptic - a traumatic intrusion that blows out everything we’ve mapped

  • 15:30 - threat wakes us up - we now know we are in a constant state of infinite threat, so we become hyper-awake, and have taken arms against chaos, constantly build enclosures and take precautions for the future, and live safe lives - we traded pain for anxiety (moneyless man: comfort for adventure)

  • 17:00 - the abstract snake, is the threat that undermines your conceptual schema

  • 17:15 - the worst snake is a malevolent one, as it breaks maps - the way out of PTSD (where someone naive was victimised), is to strengthen yourself, to no longer be naive, and to no longer be victimised - Nietzsche, if you look into an abyss long enough, you will turn into a monster, but you should hope to control it (with good of mind, you do not get possessed by it, resentment will lead to vengeful) - without your capability for mayhem, you will fall victim to mayhem, you need your sword, but it should be sheathed, and you need to develop the ability to use it - how were you so naive, how could you be such a sucker? (you need to open/widen your eyes up to your own flaws to protect yourself from your own blindness/naivety) - to survive life, you need to be able to withstand tragedy, and withstand malevolence, as they are the two forces working against you - the jungian idea of incorporation of the shadow - if you are a predator, you pick the timid and won’t fight back, they are looking for someone who cannot conceptualise what they are

    • << cynicism is an appropriate response >>
  • 23:30 - agoraphobia - never conceptualised death and suffering - you don’t make them less afraid, you make them braver - women get this more, as they go to overprotective dependence, and stay weak and protected - there’s no protection of authority from death, recourse to authority can not solve death - oh no I’m going to die, and I’m going to make a fool of myself doing it, and attract a lot of attention

    • << chuck from better call saul, no conception of evil (what he considers his brother, or at least, what he can see exists in potion in his brother), and when bad things happened, he PTSD’s and developed his fear of electricity, agoraphobia, and now eventually after fear of death and looking like a fool, must now become braver >>

    • the two big fears come up, mortality, and social judgement - panic attack, and things get out of control, and then they start to avoid the places they’ve had their panic attacks - Tiamat comes back, big predator, little victim - they’re done, their naivety is over

    • << the SJW having the freakout about confederate flag rug, and breaking down in parking lot) >>

    • they’ve met the terrible mother and the terrible father (**which is which? **social judgement, mortality) - solution is to take apart the things you are afraid of, conceptually and pragmatically, and you will realise you are tougher than you think - kids should not run to authority, hide behind the great father, and do not learn how to do it themselves - an elevator fear, is a fear of a tomb

    • << would be funny if the elevator had a ice hockey mask serial killer in it, as it would blow out what they thought was their worst fear (an elevator, or in the case of the woman SJW, a man standing passively across the car park) with a real legitimate snake, that authority cannot protect them from) >>

    • when these PTSD people recover, they also start standing up for themselves in all sorts of ways

  • 29:30 - some guys even in the 20s-40s still are deathly afraid of the judgement of their father, because they are still holding onto the belief that there is someone out there that knows (cause that is the advantage of having your father as a judge, because he knows, and until you realise that the father doesn’t know, and no one really knows what you should do, even at times yourself, then you are not an adult) - many people will pick slavery to the great father (the real father, or society’s standards), to prevent that realisation for as long as possible

    • << which is why the dweebs at high school, pick a 40+ year career like accounting, where the career says it knows best, careers based on authority, structure - then they get let off 20 years later, and their entire world collapse) >>
  • 30:00 - there is more to yourself, than you may think - people can get unbelievably tough, they can work in on the frontline of malevolence and death, and not get damaged by them

    • << JD in scrubs, and many other nurses/doctors undergrads who failed, and dropped out) >>

    • Nietzsche, every possible story can collapse, your beliefs and your belief system - sometimes a belief falls, and you can jump to another protective structure - until you realise protective structures cannot be trusted, then boom it falls over - so that is nihilistic - and jungian believes suicidal, and that the solution is to hold onto something rigid - and you want to stand in between chaos and rigidity - the solution to tragedy and malevolence is enough exposure to them so you can learn to control them - in playgrounds, we throw them in a yard with a bully, and say adapt, and the kid’s task is to adapt

  • 35:00 - kids run out, hit a limit, come back to the parent, the parent helps them with the limit - this repeats until eventually the parent has no answer, and the child has hit the same limit as the parent has hit - so what are you going to do with your life then bucko? how are you going to operate now? - you will hit problems they cannot solve for you, WITHOUT making you weaker - as a therapist, how do you not take your client’s problems home with you (they could be having a good catastrophe - a non mental illness one), you DO not steal other people’s problems, as then they cannot solve them, you solve them - therapy, is helping people solve THEIR own problems

    • << consulting is being paid for YOU to solve the problems other cannot solve >>

    • you never solve a problem for someone, by removing the opportunity for them to solve their problem, THAT’S THEFT

    • << don’t do other people’s homework (unless paid), you help them to do their own homework >>

    • Oedipal mother, I’ll protect you at the cost of you being able to protect yourself, that is abuse

  • 39:00 - the apocalypse is due to the insufficiency of conceptual schemes, so you must not rely on conceptual schemes but your ability to adapt yourself to ever-changing circumstances

  • 41:00 - what would happen if people devoted themselves to minimising misery and straightening things out - the goal is self-actualisation, and there is still a lot of room for improvement there, there is still so much waste of ourselves and others in that regard, that we can improve upon - if the state collapsed, it is because we did something wrong

    • << I use to say, if life is complex, you are doing it wrong - I also use to say, everything is my fault, as I believe I have the cards to impact anything >>

    • Dostoyevsky said that everyone is responsible for everyone else, it is a transcendent ideal, depressed people can get hyper-responsible, and it can crush them

  • 45:30 - the hostile brother is a archetypal motif - is is the part in you that is striving for the light, and the part of you that is seeking destruction “oh to hell with it” (become destructive of the thing/the-brother you admire) - if you want to destroy something, you want to destroy an ideal, not something that is flawed

    • << the school shooters are destroying the ideal of civil society >>
  • 49:00 - privilege isn’t that great, as things get handed to you

    • << who exactly is the privileged one feminists and marxists?! with your rewards for the underprivileged >>

    • one of the problems of being reasonable wealthy when you have children, is you deny your children of privation (you can just provide your kids with everything you want, their desires will grow and their capacity to provide for themselves diminishes, causing an inverse of the correct ratio)

    • << it also removes their pride, and increases their victimhood >>

    • spoilt is they get everything, by doing nothing

    • << SJW’s want to be spoilt, in the way they view others as, by the way they their landscape of games, it is very trivial way of seeing the world, as it removes agency, and only provides authority >>

  • 52:00 - god exists where awe is experienced, is perfectly reasonable as what you are trying to do, is to formulate the transcendent, and when you do it, you will feel awe

  • 52:00 - arguments for the conceptualisation of god, and the legal system

  • 54:30 - civility is the respect for another’s manifestation of the logos

    • << this was a discussion point from last week’s meeting, that it is respect for one could be wrong, anyone could be wrong, and anyone could be right, and that could be for the best - it also ties in with my premises for a framework of operation >>

    • that which inspires awes is that which is transcendent - the thing that is true over time, is what you sacrifice to for rewards

    • << as what else would you sacrifice for? nothing, as you would only sacrifice to what is consistent, known, and guaranteed - unless you are foolish >>

    • storing up goods for the future, helps you live, imagine before that grand realisation was known, this sort of knowledge was gained in unbelievable agony - people starved to death over this learning

  • 58:30 - the contract of stable society is that we will keep society stable enough so that the contracts/labor you invest, can be stored, and brought forward for rewards in the future - you sacrifice to the spirit of society that provides that social contract (this is the god the father, the spirit of the meta dominance hierarchy over time)

    • << what pissed me off about the U movie, is they were ignorant to this >>

    • god is happier when you sacrifice something of value - say you are miserable and unhappy, here is a cure - find something you value, and let it go… say it is a relationship you have, and the relationship is pathological, and you are locked into it, and you value it - sometimes when you suffer terribly, (when it is a card you can play), it is just because you just won’t let go of the thing that is biting you - on the rules is: if people are impeding your development, you sacrifice your relationship with them, it is a very very rough rule

  • 1:03:00 - you do not want to think of your ancestors as stupid just because they didn’t have the same understandings you did, they were certainly smart as heck - you can read a book like you are above the authors, or you can read a book like the authors have something to teach you

  • 1:08:00 - Geni Index - male on male competition occurs where there is differences in demographics, however they occur within demographics - **do we make our sacrifices through destruction or by getting our offerings in order - this is a fundamental political question? **- hostile resentment “it’s unfair!” - the archetypical resentment, is when that resentment explodes over time into full fledged destruction of everything - Cain no faith in the transcendent, despite the social contract, no faith in the logos (youtube commenters).

  • 1:15:00 - you’ve invited the spirit of wrongdoing in your life, and you have creatively intermingled with it voluntarily with it to bring forth a monster of your own creation

  • 1:18:00 - the spirit in which he has transgressed tortures him from within, he continues to manifest himself as guilty until he receives the punishment he desired

  • 1:20:00 - by violating your contract with god, by putting your spirit at odds, it is hard to rebuild that relationship

  • 1:22:00 - justice systems are setup to - punish the guilty, have the guilty repent, maintain social order, alleviate you from the responsibility of revenge (without the latter, revenge goes unrestrained into feuds and then into war)

  • 1:25:00 - vocab: artificer

  • 1:26:00 - ties the individual psychopathology that is resentful and revenge-seeking with the proclivity for large-scale warfare

  • 1:27:00 - jordan believes - fascistic societies are fascist from the micro (family) the macro (organisation)

  • 1:29:00 - if you can’t figure out what someone is doing and why, look at the outcome, and infer the intention - not always applicable, but sometimes useful

  • 1:32:00 - vocab: metonymy

  • 1:33:00 - you don’t want to use one level of analysis at the sacrifice of other methods of analysis

  • 1:35:00 - one of the things you see in myths, if there is a pattern of behaviour that is characteristic of the culture, that pattern of behaviour is attributed to the person who was the first to do it, as the hero << this would be why the Americans love their founding fathers so much >> the mythicalisation occurs the the level of selecting who to historicise and in what details

  • 1:41:00 - things fall apart merely because they age, they decay, this is because of entropy - degenerate entropically - things fall apart on their own accord - you have to maintain things to keep them in relevant existence - do you accelerate the decay by failing to pay attention? - chaos will wipe you out from time to time, as entropy doesn’t enter your conceptual schemes and your wilful blindness speeds the process

    • << is this why teenage life is turmoil-ous >>

    • what do you do in the ultimate and traumatic collapses? do you want a life with no storms, or do you want a life where you ride out the storms? to be the boat builder and the captain of the boat - if you want to withstand chaos, do you want to be who you are, or do you want to be the thing that changes who you are constantly? are you who you are, or the thing that can be continually be more than who you are - this is the same as the way the state subjugates to the individual, as the individual transforms the state

    • << 1:54:00 MAGA >>

  • 2:02:00 - when things fall apart, they become hyper-intellectualised and hyper-organised

  • 2:03:00-2:12:00 - over 200 people, people fractionate into groups, as we can’t conceptualise more than 200 people - we interpret the world through 200 people we have conceptualised

    • << perhaps this is why youtube has become popular, and new media figures, because they allow us to form our fractions, and test their size - facebook and google are state powers that have already scaled higher than any current conceptual state, to that the state that their reach and power are incomprehensible, and it is only going to increase, so I think the days of limited governmental size is over, as meta hyper-intelligent systems take control and power >>
  • 2:25:00 - your rights are my responsibility, you can’t talk about rights without discussing responsibility

  • it should be good for you, it should be good for your opportunities, it should be good for those around you, and for your life and society