Personality Lecture #17

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Discussion thread for Personality and Its Transformations - Lecture #17

study group discussion

Discussion as part of our Jordan B Peterson Study Group.

my notes

  • 05:00 - men and women intersect on agreeableness and neuroticism in the middle 90% or so, but the 5% of people that are most disagreeable are never women, and 5% of people that are most agreeable are never men, that 10% does not intersect at all - they are outcasts of androgyny

  • 09:00 - agreeable people really care about being liked, hence why they dislike conflict

    • Do disagreeable people care about being respected and thus must optimise for it? And then consequently, do agreeable people feel they are entitled to respect because they don’t need to earn it?
  • 09:30 - before puberty, sexes are the same personality wise

    • Men are overrepresented with learning difficulties - disagreeableness

    • Women are overrepresented with anxiety and depression - neuroticism - there is not much difference between top 5% in neuroticism and depression/anxiety

  • 11:00 - size of bodies (strength and volume) is roughly the same before puberty - men get taller, bigger, and stronger

    • Women attack their husbands more than men attack their wives

      • << Peterson’s assessment of this is incorrect - the data’s criteria is abuse, and abuse is severe - yes strength is different, but women amplify with objects, nails, repetition etc - men are also prone to not hurt women - Karen Straughan goes into this in detail >>
  • 13:00 - cost for sex for women is higher than for men

  • 14:00 - women/mother diad - caring for infants under 9 months

  • 15:30 - adult men create competitive environments

  • 16:00 - disagreeable people are tough-minded, competitive, and they won’t do anything that they do not want to do - they look at the world as a place they can compete and win

    • 19:00 - people do not like being judged by the merit of the low performers that they get bundled with

      • Conscientious people judge you based on the merit of your accomplishments

        • << Is this what is behind the attack of merit in the information technology world? The effort to get identities in AT ALL COSTS may be getting non-conscientious people in, which may not be a good thing! >>
    • 20:00 - advice to agreeable people to not be exploited - because your agreeableness wires you to be exploited by infants

      • 21:00 - say what you think, even if it will create conflict - unless it is with infants

        • 22:00 - it takes a lot of conflict to solve short-term problems, to avoid long-term problems

          • Disagreeable person - this is what I want, and this is what I’m going to do to get it

          • Agreeable person - often doesn’t even know what they want, as they’ve only optimised for what others want

  • 23:00 - if you want to be a criminal, be really low in agreeableness (things are for me, not for you, and you won’t get me to do a damn thing I don’t want to do, and I’ll stand my ground), and really low in conscientiousness (you’ll do all the work, and I’ll take my benefits) - this combination makes them border on psychopath - if you add high intelligence and high emotional stability, then you have someone who won’t work, who’ll reap the benefits, who doesn’t give a damn about you, who is assertive as hell, and who is smart, and a person like that is likely to also be charismatic (extroversion and disagreeable are kind of narcissistic, but they will put themselves forward strongly, they won’t show signs of fear, which makes them appear confident, which is easy for people to confuse with competence, which is how psychopaths get away with what they are doing, although they need to move from person to person, as their reputation will crack)

  • 25:00 - toddlers are the most aggressive humans of any age group


    • The most disagreeable 2 year olds, with correct socialisation (learning to bring their disagreeableness productively into cohort with others) tend to be fine by 4

      • Rough and tumble play seems a large aspect of this

        • << Perhaps Ghettos in the USA just need martial arts for two year olds? With filters for paedophiles >>

        • ADHD medication destroys the kids play functions – don’t medicate the boys, have them run around until they are exhausted

      • Your job as a parent is to make your child socially acceptable by the time they are 4, as otherwise it is too late and you have failed them, as their peers will reject them, and after 4, primary socialisation occurs with their peers, so if you ruin that, it is game over, they will have a world of rejection

  • 33:00 - creativity in men is 16-25, as well as criminality

    • << What is this? Can we drug it? >>
  • 35:00 - if you are a good at one thing, it often means you cannot be good at another thing, at the same time

    • << seems this is constrained temperamentally, correct? >>
  • 36:00 - conservatives like to put things in boxes, and do not like those boxes to mix - determinate and inviliable??? - scales from personal all the way up to the political - should the borders be open or closed

    • 38:00 - pathogens killing 95% of local population

      • Peterson nails the real value of diversity and inclusivity, it is not with identity, again at 45:00 he nails it

        • 45:00 if you are introverted person, it is worth watching an extroverted person, as they will have ways of being that are remote to you, that you could leverage or mimic when you are able (it will be alienating to you when you mimic it, but that alienation should not downplay its usefulness)
  • 39:00 - how to measure political correctness - oversample first, then nail it down, the statistics will take care of the excess << we should have done this with our timezone survey) >> factor analysis finds how things clump

    • Politically correct are liberals who are high in agreeableness

    • Conservatives have more polite aspect than liberals, liberals have more compassion aspect than conservatives

      • << Hrmm, previously in earlier lectures I thought he said conservatives are low openness, high conscientiousness, and liberals are opposite) >>
    • PC Liberals high in openness, high in verbal intelligence, high in agreeableness

    • PC Authoritarians high in agreeableness, high in orderliness, negative in verbal intelligence - obsessed with language control

    • PC Liberals and PC Authoritarians are correlated to 0.1 - if there is unity, it will fragment into these two groups

  • 43:00 - your temperamental proclivity, allows you to lay out a simplification onto the world

    • << this seems to be why trauma changes personality, as one must update their simplification, their map of how they and the world operate >>

    • If you are conscientious person, the world is a place to work

    • If you are an open person, the world is a place to discover new things, ideas, and experiences

    • If you are an agreeable person, the world is a place to go out there and discover and have relationships

    • They are the manner in which you are adapter to a particular niche

    • PC seem to divide the world into defenceless infants and predators, and that is blasted onto the political landscape, and things are conceptualised/judged on that temperamental variable

  • 46:00 - to be well adapted for life, find a niche in your environment that is well adapted for your temperament - you should not work at cross purposes to your temperament, it is just too darn difficult (and soul destroying) - but having found that niche, you should expand yourself, to increase your welcomed competency