2017-12-02: Bible #1, Maps of Meaning #1

topic

podcast

What were your biggest takeaways from this week?

@ExplorerSumit’s

  • Maps of Meaning #1

    • Peterson has taken a huge burden, and fortunately come out to the other side with rewards

      • The hero’s journey

      • Picking the biggest and most important load you can

    • Silent leaders

      • Shapiro may be the spokesperson but the audience are those in the frontlines

      • Gladiators

    • Gravestone to Milestone

    • A small group of thoughtful citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has - Albert Camus?

    • Read books instead of doing other things by default

    • Small acts of kindness really make the world a better place

    • Tal Ben-Shahar

    • Beware your own actions, as you might be entertaining angels unaware

    • Annoyance - Meditation retreat

    • Find the truth and then ignore it

    • Observe yourself, and be present, and then you can steer yourself in a positive way

      • Others want to overturn negative systems, and yet they cannot steer themselves

      • Sometimes the correct response is to be outraged, but nearly all of the time it is not

        • Similar to how Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is the treatment for Anxiety disorders
      • This is a treatment to being offended too

    • You cannot change your behaviour just by thinking, but you can change your thinking by doing things

    • Cleaning rooms - if you actually act, change happens - you can’t clean your room by thinking

      • You can also do this for your life

      • The (metaphorical) flood is coming, so be prepared for it

    • Those at the top of the pareto can grow by giving away their things and growing in different areas

      • Which can also assist the area they have won, as they can bring new things into it (new spoils from other battles)

        • Nietzsche’s uberman - doesn’t just stay high on the bridge, but goes under the bridge for a new journey where others are higher than them
    • Coping - adaptive and maladaptive

    • In anguish, everyone prays to him, in joys there’s none, for everyone who prays in happiness, how can sorrow come

    • Adaptation - Ants change their roles (do they change their biology too?) based on the social needs

@balupton’s

  • Milo event

    • 1984 hate

    • Psychopathic spectrum

  • Bible lecture

    • Comparison with Napoleon Hill’s teachings

    • Individuals and societies being operated by a subconscious dream - Dawkins’ meme - that guides and influences us and society, through generations, that we articulate in art - our/society’s/nature’s actions/procedures are observed by the dreamer, to influence dreams/imagination, to influence articulation/language - as the operation of game, has more detail than can be understood, so is absorbed into the dream, wrestled with, with changes acted upon, with portions articulated

    • When our knowledge becomes out of sync with our subconscious dreamlike state, a sickness of spirit occurs, leads to nihilism or ideological possession (a crippled religion)

      • Cognitive Dissonance

        • Should self - conformance with society

        • Ideal self - conformance with the dream

        • Actual self - conformance with the individual

    • Architecture of God Belief

      • Think of the universe as box, with you inside it, and laws and rules that govern the operations within the box

      • The ways in which the environment influences you that are beyond your control - are spirits (or lowercase gods)

      • The rule maker that setup the environment - is the God, the god of the gods

      • Alignment with God/gods - the ways the environment work - produces the best results

      • Science helps us understand the environment and rules, reduces the placeholder that God covers

        • With each reduction of that placeholder into human power, we transmute an external god that influenced us beyond our control, into an internal god that we control
      • Abuse - I am God - there will be something unforeseen to take you down

      • Abuse - God is on my side - you could always be wrong

      • Sam Harris - Ayn Rand - Secular Self Interest

      • Liberal vs Conservative - Self Interest and Societal Interest

@JohnBuck’s

  • Biblical meeting 1

    • Islam is run by rights and laws, not by choice or change.

    • They suppress art (dreams) which keeps from examining their existence, and from having an ideal to move towards,

  • Biblical meeting 2

    • The fear of god is the beginning of wisdom - The acceptance of the unknown, the constantly asked question of ‘Is this God? Is there God?’ leads us to further coming closer to infinity (God)

@Natha’s

  • Do you think that religious people generally agree with Peterson’s ideas about the role of religion (that it doesn’t describe objective reality)?

discussion notes

bible #1

first meeting

  • Dream are memes that exist in many layers of abstraction in people, animals, and society

  • Crossover with Napoleon Hill’s teachings

  • What parts of my morals are mine versus my culture

  • Science has left a void that Jung is filling

    • Music

    • Art

    • Youtube

    • Social life

    • Science can explain why we do these things - it feels good - but now why we have that programming in the first place

  • Creative people with structure perform better than if they were left to their own devices

  • Bible is a book which interpretation changes with the reader, and the reader over time

  • Seems there is more understanding in embodied action, than in ever longing intellectual understanding

  • Until you make the unconscious conscious, then it will direct your life and you will make it fate

Resources:

second meeting

Resources:

meaning #1

first meeting

@ExplorerSumit’s

  • Started out with discussing Why was JBP so obsessed with nuclear war when other people were going about their life just fine ?

    • Tyler pointed out that it was probably due to his Christian upbringing and then having to face the seemingly opposite reality of folks trying to destroy the whole world.
  • Brian asked that (paraphrasing) Is it worth it to follow the path of the knight ? (Most people will get eaten by the dragon why not just maximize pleasure in life ?)

    • Newton was able to stand on the shoulder of the giants but even the giants had to rely upon countless folks to get where they were.

    • Tyler: A stone in the middle of a Pyramid might question its own worth since it’s not at the top but it is contributing to the structural integrity of the pyramid.

    • Yes most of the knights might die but maybe a lot of them will be able to wound the dragon enough and that will enable the hero to defeat him for sure.

  • Pareto Distribution: What’s the correct strategy to help/deal with folks at the bottom since they will resort to crime ?

    • Why do you want to help them in the first place ?

      • Needs to be done in public interest.

      • It’s tricky to help them without taking properly/money from those at the top ?

      • Idea from Bible that rich will take place of the poor and vice versa in that case the hierarchy becomes kind of a circle.

        • It’s not very clear as to how to achieve this.
  • IQ Issue: If you have a low IQ and since Peterson keeps saying it’s fixed what does that mean for people who still want to progress ?

    • Tyler and me are very interested in this, needs a detail discussion at some point.

Brian’s

  • Hume’s “Is and Ought”

  • The idea that there is more than one kind of truth. Pragmatic truth vs scientific truth. Peterson’s disagreement with Sam Harris